On this edition of West of The Rockies, we welcome back author and researcher of historical occult mysteries, Walter Bosley, for a deep dive into his thought-provoking book NYMZA: How America Sold Its Soul. For those unfamiliar, Walter Bosley is an investigator of historical occult mysteries, a pulp fiction author, and a screenwriter who has made appearances on the History Channel's Ancient Aliens. Sharing his unique insights into the hidden past and the arcane forces that continue to fascinate and inspire. His multifaceted career spans the realms of mystery and intrigue, where he delves into the secrets of the past and brings them to light through his published works, making him a sought-after voice in both the mystery and fiction genres.
Born in San Diego, he earned his B.A. in journalism from San Diego State University. He has since built an impressive résumé that includes working for the FBI, serving as a special agent in the US Air Force Office of Special Investigations, and later acting as a counterterrorism operational consultant. His globetrotting adventures, including trips through Mexico and South America with David Hatcher Childress, have enriched his investigations and writings, with his work featured in publications such as WEX Magazine. After 19 years in national security, Walter transitioned to civilian life as a licensed private investigator in California, where he also runs his publishing company, Lost Continent Library, founded in 2002. When he's not on assignment, Bosley dedicates his time to writing fiction and nonfiction, continuously exploring strange mysteries that captivate his curiosity.
His ongoing projects and latest news can be followed on his website, walterbosley.com, and The Walter Bosley Channel on YouTube. Offering listeners and readers a window into his relentless pursuit of the unknown. Tonight's topic is one of Walter's recent books, titled NYMZA: How America Sold Its Soul, which was published in 2023. In this book, Walter presents his exploration of a secretive organization with deep historical roots that Bosley argues played a hidden yet transformative role in American history, particularly after World War II.
In this book, Bosley traces a lineage that connects medieval methods of invasion and conquest to modern covert operations, suggesting that this mysterious group infiltrated the fabric of American political, financial, and social life. He contends that the United States was compromised from within, using tactics reminiscent of a Trojan horse to further agendas that eventually eroded the nation's core principles.
The book explores the murky intersections of history, conspiracy, and alternative narratives, drawing on historical research and investigative insights, Bosley weaves together elements of Nazi technology, exploited through programs like Operation Paperclip, secret societies, and long forgotten historical traditions. The result is a controversial thesis that challenges conventional understandings of America's postwar evolution, and invites readers to reconsider the hidden forces that may have shaped contemporary events.
Below is a partial transcript from our interview with Walter Bosley, edited for clarity and readability. For the full interview where Walter expands on the topics of his book, NYMZA: How America Sold its Soul including, suspected NYMZA members, the airship mysteries of the 1850s and 1890s, secret Nazi technology like Die Glocke/the Nazi Bell, the Horten Brothers’ flying wing, Project Paperclip, the Roswell UFO incident, and more click the YouTube link at the top of this page.
West of The Rockies: What inspired you to write NYMZA: How America Sold Its Soul? Was there a specific historical moment that triggered this investigation?
Walter Bosley: It was a realization of mine, gained through research related to Operation Paperclip. And then, my book “Origin,” in which I talk about the NYMZA of Dellschau and I just kind of had an epiphany that, quite frankly, was very depressing because, as you know, I spent 20 years in the U.S. national security community, between multiple agencies, including the military, dedicating, my professional life to national defense. And to think that it was for something other than what I thought I was protecting was quite the shock. And I had started back in 2017, if I'm not mistaken, or maybe 2016, when I began creating a video series on the topic for my YouTube channel. I completed a couple of episodes, but I couldn’t continue.
It just bothered me so much to realize that a coup was, you know, committed against the U.S. with the JFK assassination, a coup by invaders who came into this country through Operation Paperclip. And, for me, it was really disturbing material, but I eventually had to follow up on it, follow through with it, and get my research out there.
So, a couple of years ago, I decided to write the book “NYMZA: How America Sold Its Soul.” So I had to get that out there. And, of all the books I've written, this was the one that was just simply not fun to write. I love writing, I love doing this research, and I've enjoyed every book I've written in different ways, except that one. That one was tough for me to write, but I felt like it was important.
WoTRradio: You served in the FBI as a special agent in the US Air Force Office of Special Investigations and later worked as a counterterrorism operational consultant. How has your background influenced your approach to uncovering these shadowy aspects of history?
WB: It trained me in being a professional investigator. And what I mean by that is, to have the integrity of being using those professional ethics, basing things on evidence that, you know, no matter what kind of evidence it is. What I mean by that is if it’s different documentary evidence or witness evidence or some other material, you know, because there are various types of evidence, but to, you know, not just go willy-nilly with one source that I don't attempt to verify or confirm.
It prepared me to do this research the right way, you know, and that's why I feel confident with my books. Of course, I footnote them, I provide a bibliography, and I present the sources. And that is a direct influence from my days as a federal investigator and intelligence collector.
WoTRradio: Writing this book, how did you balance well-documented research with the more speculative elements of the research?
WB: Well, with NYMZA: How America Sold Its Soul. From my perspective, it's one of my most grounded works because I base it on history.
WoTRradio: Speaking of history, where does the word NYMZA come from? What does the word mean, or what does it stand for, and how did you come across it?
WB: The word and the name NYMZA come to us from Charles Dellschau, who is our single original source of the word NYMZA, and the mysterious Sonora Aero Club. Which boy, that's another conversation in itself. I've written about them quite a bit, but NYMZA was a German-based organization involved in private research into exotic technologies. Now, the short version of how that led to my book is that I discovered Charles Dellschau's illustrations of flying machines, which he claimed were being built in the 1850s, a decade before the United States' Civil War.
And one of the devices, the motive parts of the propulsion system, was a rudimentary proof-of-concept version of what we today know as the bell, Die Glocke. Well, you had a German organization that was sponsoring, you know, the development of this Bell prototype in the 1850s. And then we have the legendary Die Glocke, also known as The Bell, which is connected to the Nazi scientists of the 20th century. So I started pulling the threads, the historical threads, not just the fantastical technology threads, but the historical threads as well. And I came to a proposed conclusion that this group, this mysterious NYMZA group of Dellschau, was one of the driving forces behind the changes in Germany going into the 20th century, which led to the rise of the Nazi Party.
And I argue that the Nazis got The Bell, not from a crashed reverse engineered flying saucer, but from steady human development that Dellschau, Charles Dellschau tells us goes back to the 1850s and, may be the result of the, that acorn Rankine Turbine, which is virtually identical to the, the schematic that Charles Dellschau provides for, what powered and lifted, provided lift, for these 1850s flying machines.
There is a human technological line of research dating back to the early 19th century. That's much more grounded than the reverse engineering of a crashed flying saucer from another world, which I know is a popular concept. But the facts and evidence don't support that as much as they help the human thread. So I looked at World War II history, and when I started connecting the threads between what was going on in the era of Dellschau’s NYMZA in the mid-19th century and what was going on during World War II, I found a legitimate historical connection, you know, threads connecting these two. So it's my opinion that this NYMZA organization, whatever they were, were very much involved with the development of Nazi Germany.
WoTRradio: There is a chapter in your book where you list suspected members of the NYMZA group. And I couldn't help but notice that many of them were philosophers, chemists, individuals one would imagine were reasonably intelligent. However, they all seem to have an inclination towards mysticism. Can you tell me about that? Because in today's age, it looks like science and mysticism are at odds with each other. How did these seemingly well-educated and intelligent men reconcile their scientific and academic backgrounds with their study and interest in mystical traditions?
WB: The great scientists, for the longest time, were the philosophers-scientists. Because the more you look at reality, the more fantastic things you're going to see, the more you're going to be open to what we call mystical.
Here's an interesting thing. In the Western world, Western civilization, for quite a time, was; however the Royal Society went, that’s how science goes. In 1830, a significant turning point occurred in science at the Royal Society. Now, these brilliant philosopher scientists founded the Royal Society, you know, material guys, grounded scientists who were also alchemists, who were also philosophers.
Now, your technician scientists, you know, which some people call the bean counters, you know, stick to your specialty and don't be a generalist. And they hated these guys. And so, finally, in 1830, when they outnumbered the philosopher-scientists, when the bean-counter technicians outnumbered the philosopher-scientists, they took over the Royal Society and guided our modern era of science from 1830 onwards, focusing more on the specialists, the more technician-scientists.
Now, here's the thing. I'm not condemning that, because look at the fantastic advances in science and technology we've had, you know, happened to have had since then. However, what has happened is that science has lost its appreciation for what we call the mystical. Remember the philosopher-scientists; they were well-rounded. They were more generalist. They had a perspective that allowed them to understand chemistry, geology, astronomy, and other related disciplines. And they were able to put together a more comprehensive perception/picture of reality, of how things were as a whole.
These individuals, whom I've identified in the book, were the ones who still appreciated a more comprehensive and well-rounded approach. And they were able to put two and two together from what they were finding. They were more open-minded. And so, they were more flexible in their pursuit of specific technologies and their development.
WoTRradio: One of the names that stood out to me in the list of suspected NYMZA members included in your book is that of Carl Kellner, who was a chemist and an inventor. Not only that, he was also the founder of the legendary and infamous Ordo Templi Orientis, also known as the O.T.O. Could you elaborate on how this organization operated during very conservative times? How did these organizations like the O.T.O., which was an organization deeply connected to occult and mystical practices, some of which years later would be based on the writings of Alistair Crowley, manage to operate in a very conservative society without being shunned or subject to religious persecution?
WB: I would say they operated very carefully for that reason. But think of it this way: that also served their purpose because being forced to be very careful and discreet, that meant that you could also be highly selective in who you brought into your circle.
So they could vet only the most qualified. Qualified, not just scientifically and technically, but qualified philosophically, so they can have time and room to look at somebody, learn them, learn what they were really about. They could select people who would respect and understand the need for discretion. What's interesting about the 19th century is that it started way more strictly than it ended. So, these guys understood firsthand the need for discretion, but they also understood that a label of fantastical, evil, or heretical would be slapped on something that the powers-that-be simply did not want people to have.
WoTRradio: It appears once NYMZA laid roots in North America, they turned their attention toward the South, and they began some expeditions to South America. One of the things I want to touch on is that these NYMZA expeditions were not undertaken by caravans of horse-drawn carriages. It appears that they were using some type of airship technology to travel south. I know that sounds like make-believe to some folks, but there is some evidence to support that there were some type of flying machines and they were not--and I want to be clear here--we're not talking about hot air balloons. We're talking about airships. Can you tell us a bit about that?
WB: It is alleged, we do have to remember that as far as this mysterious NYMZA group’s association with the airship mysteries--and I say that plural, because with the Sonora Aero Club, which Charles Dellschau talks about, we have the 1850s airship mystery. They were smaller-scale, again, a prototype, and again, a proof of concept. But when you look at the descriptions by witnesses of the 1890s airship mystery, of the better-known great airship mystery. What you're looking at is just the same technology, advanced 40 years later. Right down to some of the descriptions of the motive devices on these 1890s airships. You can find those in Dellschau’s description of the 1850s Aeros.
WoTRradio: How was NYMZA financing these projects and these expeditions? Was this group comprised of very wealthy members from the private sector? Did they have some government backing them, or how did they operate?
WB: These are the kind of guys, and this is the kind of organization that lifted and backed governments. They were true breakaway societies. They were independent in terms of their resources and means. They were also the industrialists of the day, and they pooled their resources. It wouldn't have been as, even when we adjust for inflation as they do, when you look at their historical expenditure and you say, “well, adjusting for inflation in 2025 dollars, that would be, oh my gosh!” Even when you do that, things were not quite as inflated and expensive as they are today. Remember that these airships were either from the 1850s or their 1890s descendants. This was still 19th-century technology, utilizing 19th-century materials. You couldn't take a 1890s airship and do what a modern Airbus or a 747 does. No, I mean, they just were more fragile than a modern jetliner, that kind of thing.
WoTRradio: Earlier in the interview, you mentioned Die Glocke, also known as The Bell, which, to provide some context, was a purported top-secret technological device or Wunderwaffe, a wonder weapon allegedly developed by Nazi Germany in the 1940s. According to some accounts, Die Glocke was a bell-shaped machine approximately 12 feet high and nine feet in diameter, said to produce a mysterious metallic fluid for anti-gravity, free energy, and even time distortion experiments. Since we're talking about the evolution of the airships, how does Die Glocke, The Nazi Bell, fit into all this?
WB: I think The Bell has had everything to do with it. The Stephen Romano Gallery puts up a beautiful book, and it's called “The Art of Dellschau,” and it's the best book on Dellschau’s art, his claim, his story, his illustrations of what he swore was being built and flown in the 1850s. And I'm the guy who was looking through this book because Stephen sent me a copy, and I'm looking through it, and I see a proof of concept —a rudimentary version of The Bell.
And this is Dellschau, he had done this drawing, this painting sometime after 1893, but before 1923, when he died, which predate Nazi Germany. So he had claimed that these guys used this thing, this bell-shaped thing--and he has a description of it--that they were using this in the 1850s, and that's what gave the ship lift and propulsion.
And I called Stephen and I said, “Stephen, the bell, they were using the bell!” And I told him what page it was on. He goes, “Oh my God, I've never noticed that.” Then I told Joseph Farrell about it because he's, you know, a foremost writer on the Nazi bell. And it blew his mind. He began to look into it more closely, and he agreed that the Sonora Aero Club was using a concept version of the Bell.
WoTRradio: I'd like to bring up another suspected NYMZA member to help us delve into the 20th century and Operation Paperclip, which you also cover in this book. Hjalmar Schacht. He was a Freemason and, more interestingly, he served in Adolf Hitler's government, not only as the president of the Central Bank but also as Minister of Economics. He lived long enough to see the fruits of Project Paperclip, which ultimately led to NASA's successful mission to put a man on the moon. Could you tell me a little bit about Project Paperclip? We know that it was about bringing several German scientists to the US. Some went to the Soviet Union, some went to the UK. However, specifically in the US, it's where they had the most success. Why is NYMZA, and in the context of this discussion, the Nazis, infatuated with space travel and colonizing space. Why is that?
WB: Because this was the original goal of rocketry and aerospace medicine. Now, people hear the words “aerospace medicine” and they think, “Oh my God, how boring!” Well, guess what? Aerospace medicine is how you develop life support systems. Now, dating back to the 1920s, the aerospace medicine scientists, Strughold and the others, who eventually, you know, helped develop NASA and, as you say, put Americans on the moon. From the get-go, they wanted to put man in space. All these individuals who made this happen, putting a man in space, were driven by their original dream and vision all along. And I argue in the book that they used the United States at the end of the war. They saw the writing on the wall and used the United States as a means to pursue their dreams. They saw, “Well, these are the victors. This is the new power in the West. These are guys with the industrial base. These are the guys with the technological know-how. They're at a high point right now. We can make them better and stronger in this.
So we'll do our classic medieval Prussian thing: we'll get ourselves there and look at all the resources we'll have. We'll have the money, the material resources, and another thing we'll do is really stir up this Cold War idea. Keep them afraid so that they're constantly building their military. Make them need us!” That was their thinking: “make them need us! And we'll get our ticket to spend and do whatever we want by telling them we're going to put you in space to protect your country and protect the free world.”
And, as you know, in the book, once they made that possible. Once they kept advancing the technology, the idea was for them to get their culture, their corporate organizations, so to speak, into space and then not need us and then turn on us, which, I think, the first big turning point on us, the same way that the medieval Prussians who did this to the Teutonic Knights, the same way that they started to bring down the Teutonic Knights, they have been doing to us since the JFK assassination.
WoTRradio: I'd like to ask you about another mystery you cover in this book, NYMZA, specifically the Roswell incident. The popular theory is that a UFO carrying an extraterrestrial crew crashed in Roswell, New Mexico, in early July 1947. The US military then allegedly retrieved bodies and the craft, and some believe we back-engineered some of this out of this world technology. However, in your book, you state that Roswell was the first American attempt at manned space flight. Can you tell us what you found in your research that supports this?
WB: I have for a long time rejected the E.T. hypothesis for Roswell. It's very popular, and it's been thrown at us for decades. It's the hypothesis that the powers that be want us to embrace. However, when you examine the history, as I mentioned earlier, the United States Army Air Force and then the US Air Force, the Independent Air Force, played a crucial role in launching America's manned space program.
When you look at New Mexico, you have White Sands and all the bases in the state, of course, including Roswell, where the bomber group was located. You had the right guys, all in the same place, at the same time, with limitless money for the day. They could get whatever money they wanted, and they were operating in strictest secrecy.
Now, when you have many of the foremost aviation medicine scientists who entered their field and developed their specialties, intending to put humans in space, you have those guys together with the rocket geniuses, the guys who shared that dream of putting man in space and that's why they got into rocketry, and that's really why they were building these things.
You have those guys with the aerospace medicine guys. You have secrecy. You have money, you have the means. What do you think they're going to do? I say, and I lay it out in the book in detail. I lay out all the right guys and the right resources at the right time and in the right circumstances.
Now, I also outline the events that were happening at the time and what was being tested. I think the smoking gun is when you look at the Horten Brothers‘ Flying Wing, which we captured, I think two of those, at least one, but two of those. And then you look at the YB-49, which was our massive flying wing that we're told first flew in, I think, September or October of 1947. Which meant it was being built and developed before 1947.
Then you look at the original, very first so-called witness drawing of what the Roswell craft is supposed to look like. You see that it much more resembles the mid-section of the Horten Brothers’ Flying Wing, a version of that, than it ever did something from another world.
Now, I argue, it was the early years of the Cold War. Secrecy was the order of the day. It was better that you put out a story that it was beings from another world, than to say the US Army Air Force tried to put man in space because, God forbid, the Soviets learned that we were doing that. There is much more evidence to suggest that Roswell was the result of our first attempt at manned space flight, rather than being anything related to extraterrestrial life, and I have people yell at me and get mad because they don't want to hear it. I'm an idiot. I don't know what I'm talking about, or I'm a disinformation agent, and all this stuff. However, I stand on the historical threads and evidence that I have gathered and presented. So the E.T. hypothesis to explain Roswell is so thin that it's a house of broken matchsticks.
WoTRradio: With the current political tensions between the US and the rest of the world, what lessons do you hope readers can draw from these hidden historical narratives?
WB: First of all, what's influenced my perspective on history is that I like to tell people: Western civilization needs to put the mirror down and get over itself. In Western society, many people believe we have reached the pinnacle and that nothing of value can be found in the East or in the past. We are just so amazing. And that's what I mean by putting the mirror down. It needs to not be so in love with itself, and it can learn a lot, particularly the further you go back and be open-minded to things. But by doing this, you also see that there's nothing new under the sun. You see that, “Oh, wait a minute. That's this old monster rearing its ugly head.” Therefore, we must be cautious, especially in a so-called free society.
Now, in a free society, what we must remember is to try to avoid and keep at bay those who are farther out on the extremes, because that's where trouble is likely to start. That's where your trouble is going to come from. And these are the kinds of things that an influence, like a NYMZA, are going to do their best to take advantage of. They're going to be pulling strings on both ends to keep us in a state of panic, agitation, and discord. They don't want the population to get along with one another or live together. They want to keep us in this state of paranoia, the state of division, and all of that.
This is a tactic they use, and they're using it effectively in the United States, in particular, by keeping this social pendulum swinging far left and far right. They do not want that pendulum resting in the middle because that's where--that's when we learn to live together. That's when we've compromised, and that’s when we don't see each other as the enemy. And when we don't see each other as the enemy, we're able to see them for what they are. Well, this is why they keep these things going. They keep us agitated. This is one of the classic tactics of this medieval era NYMZA that I talk about in the book. And that's precisely what's going on here, now as I see it.
WoTRradio: Is there a key takeaway you want the readers to have after they finish your book? For example, how might this new perspective transform our understanding of history?
WB: Expand your perspective and your understanding. Be wary of any particular individual or group that tells you what not to look at, what not to think. That is dismissive of another civilization or a culture that might do it differently than your own, or this particular special interest group.
That's another point: be very wary of special interest groups. Notably, political special interest groups.
Make sure you pick up your copy of NYMZA: How America Sold Its Soul at walterbosley.com, and while you're there, also check out his other fascinating books and subscribe to the Walter Bosley Channel on YouTube to stay up to date with his latest research.
Don’t forget to check out the full interview with Walter on YouTube, where we explore these and other topics covered in his book.
